Curse

Cherrie · Aug 12, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

As the title says... I am really starting to worry about Guild Wars now... as it seems, it is all about titles now.. which makes me upset... not to use more harsh language.

We have title-tied skills, title-tied effectiveness, titles per se, now even title-tied favor system! I can't help but think that for more than 6 months now, all Anet can think of to add to the gameplay is more titles and more grins. It worries me a lot..

Please don't get me wrong, I love titles, I'm trying to max out as much as I can on my main, but I simply hate the idea of grind being beneficial to anything in GW, its supposed to be Skill>Time, and unfortunatelly... it ain't anymore.

Bithor the Dog · Aug 12, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

You know, I'm beginning to wonder the same myself.
I adopted Guild Wars because of the Time factor. I dont have a vast amount of time to put into it and with the fee free model it was a nice step into MMO's for me. Now, I have some very very powerful skills that are tied to title ranking.
We now have a favour system tied to Title rankings
And it worries me, that this seems to be an after thought knee jerk reaction by the developers to appease an element of the gamers that play it.

It doesnt smack of the "well thought out ideas in the grand plan" sort of thing that will keep players playing the game.

Faer · Aug 12, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

The hard-core PvE players need grind to keep them attached to the game. ArenaNet wants to keep those players attached to the game so that they tell other people about the game, so that those other people will buy it (once the payment is done, those people don't matter except for the potential they hold to bring in more people, but that's another story). So, ArenaNet adds grind titles. Later, as the hard-core PvE players still want more grind, ArenaNet adds more reason to grind for titles, making grinding essentially necessary to play the game as a social one; without grinding for those 1337 PvE skills, you'll be passed up in groups for people who have them, and if you are one of those people who just can't beat the game with the AI teams then this becomes quite a problem for you.

Grind has never been technically essential to playing this game, but these days, with the title system granting players benefits in both PvE and PvP (though more subtle in PvP, and not in the same form as in PvE), the game truly has become Grind Wars rather than Guild Wars.

yesitsrob · Aug 12, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

The titles are entirely optional, and most of them have no actual effect on your play.

The bonus Lucky adds to Lockpick Success is very small

Same goes for the Wisdom + Treasure hunter one for salvaging.

Lightbringer probably has the most notable effect but that title you just pick up as you play through anyway.

Titles are there for people who do want to grind them, for those that don't they don't have to and can still have the same experience.

As far as favor goes: It's dumb, and should be changed.

Antheus · Aug 12, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

The titles are entirely optional, and most of them have no actual effect on your play.

Most title's aren't optional, and most of them have an increasingly important effect on your play.

And when GW:EN comes around, all new titles will have critical impact on how you play. Meaning - if you don't have a certain title-based skill, you might as well grind until you do.

It's all about titles now.

Deleet · Aug 12, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

It's never been Guild Wars. Mostly Build Wars, now Title Wars.

Raganark · Aug 12, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

i think the benefits are not that huge to really say you must have them to be good at guild wars

Mitchel · Aug 12, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Most title's aren't optional, and most of them have an increasingly important effect on your play.

And when GW:EN comes around, all new titles will have critical impact on how you play. Meaning - if you don't have a certain title-based skill, you might as well grind until you do.

It's all about titles now.

Please tell me what titles arent optional? If you mean the sunspear one, well you can already get the needed level just by talking to Sunspear scouts.

I Is Special · Aug 12, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Most title's aren't optional, and most of them have an increasingly important effect on your play.

It's all about titles now.

Yeah, Now if you dont have Drunkard Lvl2 you are shunned by everyone in pre-searing. If you dont have "1337 Skillz" you're just a noob. If you dont have Savior of the Kurzicks/Luxons you'll never, ever get into a good guild, and if you dont have Connoisseur of Confectionaries everyone will /laugh at you and make you cry in your corner! Now you have to have at LEAST rank 3 treasure hunter and wisdom title, its not a choice anymore, they are not optional what-so-ever! It's not fair at all now!

/sarcasm

There are few titles that actually affect gameplay. I've never been in a group where they say "you have to have lvl 9 sunspear and max LB to fight with us." And now a days who really does PuGs anyway?

Voltar · Aug 12, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Well, I'm witholding judgement on the GW:EN titles until I see how the minigames work. If they're fun then I won't mind grinding to get, "Summon Mursaat," or whatever. If it's going to be the same monotonous grind crap as the NF titles I'll puke. Quests suck in this game and I avoid them at all costs (except the skill quests in prophecies and SF quests which are actually relatively cool). HM grinding SS title now causes exhaustion. I can only hope they're not going to add more crap like that after GW:EN.

One thing though, I've been wanting them to add hand-to-hand to this game forever. I was hoping it would be a profession I could give to my Mo as a secondary but the dwarf arena will do. I'll probably max my Deldrimor title on my Mo just to satisfy that need (unless the arenas have a dull grind feel). At least you won't have leachers.

As for the above poster, if you don't have R5 you won't get into an HA group. If you don't have R3, you won't get into the desparate PuGs that don't use voice chat. LB does affect your PuGing in DoA. The point is that this is turning into everything I hate about WoW.

The Balth faction title track is actually the one that irks me the most since it forces you to stick to a playing a single gametype or you can't play it at all. I can always go back to finishing my 2 remaining guardian titles later (and with higher-powered skills from GW:EN to make it possibly easier).

Hyper.nl · Aug 12, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

I like the titles, Guild Wars generally lacks rewards for dedication. Things like the low level cap and lack of high-end weapon-armor stats make it relatively easy to get a maxed character.

I'm glad that the titles are at least on way to get rewarded for the hundreds or thousands of hours invested in a character.

Personally I would like to see more rewards for dedication, not only to show it with titles and nice looking attire, but also with slightly better stats on the character, armor and items for players who invest vast amounts of time in their chars.

Omniclasm · Aug 12, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

I like the titles, Guild Wars generally lacks rewards for dedication. Things like the low level cap and lack of high-end weapon-armor stats make it relatively easy to get a maxed character.

I'm glad that the titles are at least on way to get rewarded for the hundreds or thousands of hours invested in a character.

Personally I would like to see more rewards for dedication, not only to show it with titles and nice looking attire, but also with slightly better stats on the character, armor and items for players who invest vast amounts of time in their chars.

Titles are not rewards for dedication. You get little benefit from most of them. The only thing you get is a few numbers below your name.

Voltar · Aug 12, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

...I would like to see more rewards for dedication, not only to show it with titles and nice looking attire, but also with slightly better stats on the character...

Big old, "Oh Hell No." Blizzard makes a game for that. I'm all for checking out the new arenas for the new skills in GW:EN but I'm also all for playing my PvE characters in PvP. This would either overpower the PvE characters that did this or more likely (Anet would see the forum mess that would create) Anet would give the new "max stats" free to PvP-only characters which would require people to get these titles to be competetive in PvP with PvE characters.

I don't mind the skills when the title isn't an unbearable grind. Even though the factions skills can be maxed with factions arenas (which I like playing), Anet nerfed faction from those arenas and they're plagued by the leechers.

hallomik · Aug 12, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Titles are optional.

You can take titles or leave them.

No one has to have any title.

Whether you have a title or not doesn't matter.

Few if any guilds will turn you down for not having a title.

When I see someone with a tough-to-get title, I think "good for him." Other than that, I don't really care.

Titles are optional.

The titles needed to progress in Night Fall are easy to get as you play through the game.

The titles needed to get skills in Factions are easy to achieve for a semi-dedicated player. The skills are only marginally more effective at higher ranks than at rank 1, so you only "need" rank 1.

Titles give some players a sense of accomplishment.

Titles give some players something to shoot for. For me? I don't care.

Titles are optional.

Deleet · Aug 12, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Titles are optional.

You can take titles or leave them.

No one has to have any title.

Whether you have a title or not doesn't matter.

Few if any guilds will turn you down for not having a title.

When I see someone with a tough-to-get title, I think "good for him." Other than that, I don't really care.

Titles are optional.

The titles needed to progress in Night Fall are easy to get as you play through the game.

The titles needed to get skills in Factions are easy to achieve for a semi-dedicated player. The skills are only marginally more effective at higher ranks than at rank 1, so you only "need" rank 1.

Titles give some players a sense of accomplishment.

Titles give some players something to shoot for. For me? I don't care.

Titles are optional.

Skills are optional. Armor is optional. Healing henchmen are optional.

Besides, many many guilds will turn you down, unless you have the correct rank. Have you never played PvP?

hallomik · Aug 12, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Skills are optional. Armor is optional. Healing henchmen are optional.

Good argument. You changed my mind.

Clone · Aug 12, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Most title's aren't optional, and most of them have an increasingly important effect on your play.

And when GW:EN comes around, all new titles will have critical impact on how you play. Meaning - if you don't have a certain title-based skill, you might as well grind until you do.

It's all about titles now.

I have to agree. It used to be that titles were optional, but nightfall ended that. There are quests that now require you to have achieved a high enough sunspear rank. Lightbringer is a significant step away from the old skill v. time spent paradigm too. Sure, you can argue that they're optional. But, as others have said, buying armor and skills are just as "optional." The bottom line is that in the past, a player who had just started could be up and running with the same the capabilities of someone who'd been playing for a year. Level 20 was attainable. Max items and armor were affordable. While this is still true, they have changed the game so that not all level 20's are on an equal footing anymore. Someone who's spent months grinding up their faction points now have a lot more powerful skills than someone who is starting out, and the only way for the newcommer to get on an equal footing is through hours and hours of grind.

Deleet · Aug 12, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Good argument. You changed my mind.

That was probably ironic.
What I meant was:
Most of the things in-game are optional, you really don't need them to "complete the game" (maybe lacking a definition, Im would assume beating all missions and doing all quests, normal mode?). Titles should not give actual benefits, unless they are easy to get, which again somewhat (but not fully) ruins the idea of the titles.

Edit: Maybe you weren't ironic after all, sorry.

Bryant Again · Aug 12, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Right now, I don't see much of a problem with skills being tied to gameplay. What *does* bother me is how it's the largest piece of endgame we got. With GW:EN, it sounds like titles will have a bigger impact, soooo, oh well.

Bithor the Dog · Aug 12, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Titles should not give actual benefits, unless they are easy to get, which again somewhat (but not fully) ruins the idea of the titles.

Kind of have to agree with that. If the Devs are going to make some skills linked to titles then take the grind out of improving them. You can improve most skills by levelling up and that can take anywhere from two days to two months. Grinding out faction points to achieve +1 whatever for and extra second is completely barmy.
Grinding out for max title kurzick ...insane to me. its one of those titles that if i get it good if i dont then no big deal